Terry Polevoy on TV
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  • Ronnie Hawkins and Adam

    Discovery Health Promotes Quackery

    Who is Adam Dreamhealer?

    Program: Health On The Line
    Host: Avery Haines
    Network: Discovery Health Canada
    Episode #3160
    Last air dates dates: Dec 6, 2004 at 07:00 and Jan 2, 2005 at 18:00 
    Title: Energy Healing
    Length: 47 minutes
    Senior producer: Catherine Tamas
    Topic - Adam Dreamhealer

    Health on the line is off the mark

    Avery Haines is the host of one of Canada's best known medical shows. It has won the prestigious Gemini Award. She usually does a fine job with the facts, and her guests are usually well-qualified in their respective fields. But, when it comes to "energy healing" this production was neither energetic nor helpful to anyone who has suffered from cancer or other chronic debilitating disease.

    In fact, the entire show was biased in favour of those who appeared as guests. I am beginning to wonder about the decision of the producers and the entire network that continues to air this show. The last air date was January 2005. Since this program was promoted on the web site dedicated to Adam last October, I feel that it is in the best interest of the public to extract the transcript of the show, and let the public decide for themselves about Adam and the people who follow his dreams.

    The Discovery Health Canada standard disclaimer as it appeared on the show:

    Any medical treatment, health regimen, or product information contained in this program should not be used for self-diagnosis or treatment and does not represent the opinions or policies of the producers or the network. Viewers should seek other medical or other health-related advice from their own medical practitioners.

    Unfortunately, the content of the show, in my opinion, was probably fabricated by some of the participants on the show. I believe that it was their intent to promote unproved non-medical treatments, and their own books, which would naturally support their own distorted views, which I believe sometimes border on delusional behaviour. Any psychiatrist or psychologist with half-a-brain would only have to read the transcript of the show and they would have little or no trouble in placing a DSM label some of the participants. In my opinion, if the participants in the show actually believe that what happened to them was the work of a distance healer, then it is entirely possible that they either didn't have the disease that they claimed to have, or that they are part of an elaborate "plan" to publicize and give support to Adam "anonymous" Dreamhealer and his family.

    The use of testimonials on the program without independent expert professional opinion is an example of irresponsible journalism. Even as a human interest story, the fact that there were no critics of those who were on the show is unforgivable.

    Statements were made repeatedly by and about Adam Dreamhealer and his unsupported claims that his powers enable people to cure themselves of cancer and other serious health problems. These include statements made by the host of the show and most of the participants. The show runs about 47 minutes without commercial breaks.:

    Terry Polevoy, MD
    January 13, 2005

    The cast and characters

    • Avery Haines - AH
    • Ronnie Hawkins - RH
    • Adam Dreamhealer - ADH
    • Adam's mother - Liz
    • Effie Chow - EC
    • Deepak Chopra - DC
    • Andy Leyland - AL
    • Tina Norton - TN


    AH: Hello I'm Avery Haines and welcome to "Health on the Line". You are about to hear an incredible story involving rock'n'roll legend Ronnie Hawkins and a 17 year old boy who says he uses something called "energy healing" to get rid of illness. Now you probable read the news last year that doctors had found a mass on Ronnie Hawkins' pancreas. He was told that he didn't have long to live. Willing to try anything, Ronnie took a call from a boy named Adam who said he could help with "distant healing". What happened next has perplexed the medical community and Ronnie himself. Later, "Health on the Line" brings together the "rocker" and the "healer" to meet for the first time. This is Ronnie's story: [The first few minutes of the video segment is about Ronnie Hawkins and his life on stage. Flashing before your eyes are short clips of his rock'n'roll career and still pictures of Ronnie arm-in-arm with movie greats. After he told about his last few decades as a rock'n'roller he began talking about his medical illnesses. You have to remember that Hawkins was a chain smoker, heavy drinker and user of marjuana and he talks about it openly when he is interviewed.]

    RH: When I got sick, first of all it was the heart...., the hearts been messed up for a few years. See what it was, I ate hamburger and grease all my life. [The video now shows boiling oil full of good stuff to eat] So the arteries were starting to stop-up in my heart, and so the next thing was surgery. I did that, and I'm gettin' good. I'm feeling good, I'm getting ready to get on a treadmill. I mean I'm getting ready to fly, getting my wind back, everything's pumpin'. I'm ready. [Despite his claims he smoked in a recent video presented on CTV].

    And then one morning I got up, I felt bad, I felt itchy. I looked in the mirror and I looked like a "yellow". So that's that jaundice thing, it's what I found out later they call it or somethin' leaking into my stomach. And then they discovered the growth in my pancreas. They gave me a CAT scan - there it is - the cancer in my pancreas.

    [Video shows Bryce Taylor, the head of one of Canada's most prestigious departments of surgery, speaking from an operating room. He is also in the CTV video seen in 2004. During the segments samples of the official medical record are flashed on the screen, but you never see who they belong to. Complaints were filed with the University Health Network about Dr. Taylor's participation in the two videos. Note how the tight editing by the producers of the show placed this right here!]

    BT: At surgery what we found was just that. [Just what is "that" Dr. Taylor?] We found a very large lump in the head of the pancreas which was rock hard, and there was nothing else to suggest that this was anything other than cancer of the head of the pancreas.

    RH: A few weeks go by, six-weeks --- eight-weeks, maybe longer. They put you back in the CAT scan and see if it's growing or not growing or whatever it is. Right? I think this one had doubled in size. That makes it where you only have so long to live. If they keep doubling, you know, it's over. So, that's what all of us thought, it was time to move on into the hearafter. Heh, heh, heh. Elvis and them need a good front man up there anyway.

    BT: Now at this point I think everybody in the medical team and in Ronnie's family became resigned to the fact that he was dealing with a very, very serious illness and that one from which he would not recover.

    RH: I first heard of Adam in B.C. through Mary, my bookeeper's daughter-in-law...When you think you're dying you'll try anything to see if it'll work. But meanwhile I wasn't worried about it. I ain't feelin' bad about at my self. I'm not that type. I'm partying going up. If it's time to go I've already been a rock'n'roller 52 years, 46 years in Canada. So, you know I've done it all. There ain't nothing else left for me to do except startin' over now.

    Here's what Mary told me to do that Adam said to do. At 9:00 tonight you lay down on the bed, you relax as much as you can. You kinda lay there and keep your thoughts, kind of relax. Keep yourself as relaxed as you can. And supposedly he has the power to see whatever it is goin' on, and that's like the "Twilight Zone" type of thing. And if you notice anything in your stomach or anything, whatever it is, make no changes - stay relaxed. And that's all I did. That's it. But, the stomach started feeling like it's jumpin', like you've got little stomach twitches, or muscle contractions. And that's what happened every time that he did it. And as mysterious as it is, and as wild as it is, the next time I went in there to get a CAT scan, there's no trace of it, cancer or that it ever was there.

    BT: We have gone back a number of times with our CAT scan experts, MRI and ultrasound experts, looked at the films, and of course I know what it felt like at surgery. And there was nothing in that mass suggesting that it was anything other than a cancer. In that sense, something will all this constellation of presentation and X-ray imaging and so on, and how it felt at surgery. It's fair to say, no I've never seen anything disappear like this. So, who knows?

    RH: I think Adam is for real. I think he's got somethin' special. It's a miracle as far as I'm concerned. Why I was chosen, ME, for the one to live through this. So many unbelievable people have just died, young people just recently with cancer of the pancreas.

    AH: Ronnie, thanks for coming in. You know a lot of people will hear that story and be incredulous. [Def. not willing to believe]. If you'd have heard this before it happened to you what would go through your mind in terms of whether this is real or not?

    RH: Well, you know face so much fraud. You know being I'm from the South, I've had more healers come through there trying to heal things, you know. I know that I could heal as good as they could. You know, I couldn't heal nothin'. But, I do know that there are some mysterious things out there and that some people are blessed since the beginning of time we've been someone's. Maybe it's Adam's that chosen this new treatment. It's something, it sounds okay once it's explained. It sounds like Science fiction, it's unbelievable. But, look how far we've come.

    AH: And when you were describing the treatments, where you were actually laying down, and Adam at the same time all the way in Vancouver was "working on you", you could actually feel things happening in your stomach. [How in the world can anyone prove that Adam was doing anything at the time? He may have been at the movies, working at a fast food restaurant, etc.]

    RH: And that's when I started paying a little attention because I'm just thinkin' this to myself. I'm not saying anything. It's like I told you earlier, Jesus didn't even heal long distance. So what is this? What am I into this time? Do you know what I mean? All of a sudden I started gettin' those little things in my stomach. I thought could this really be helping. I mean you know this may be part of it. Cause I'm rootin', I'm rootin'. I'm hopin' he's the real McCoy. And then all of a sudden, he did a lot of treatments, so he worked a long time on that. ..... A long time, lots of times. But the shocking thing when I went back in for the next CAT scan, not only wasn't it there, there'd never been a trace of it.

    AH: And the doctor, the doctors looked at you. Because your doctor actually held that mass.

    RH: Doctor Taylor, Bryce Taylor, held it in his hand and felt it. It was a hard thing on the tip. Because it was on an artery, surgery was out. Soon they were getting ready to start this chemotherapy which I wasn't even sure that I was gonna do. I told them I'm not sure I would go through chemotherapy. All chemotherapy is done will just make you sick while you're alive, you know. So, I chose that whichever way it went to go out in a ball of glory. So, I partied for three months. I'm tellin' you if I'd have been healthy, with nothing wrong with me, I could've died doing what I did. Heh, heh, heh.

    AH: So Adam might have worked two miracles !!!

    RH: He mighta had to work another one real quick to get me out of it.

    AH: Well there were some other things that happened during your treatments. I mean you had that sorta coughing feeling in your stomach while he was working.

    RH: That's got my ????. When that started I said "what is this"?

    AH: And wasn't there a time when Adam was "healing" you, when he contacted you to ask you whether or not you were smoking.

    RH: He said he couldn't get through, he couldn't get through that cloud of smoke and stuff, you know. I was smoking, you know, a half-a-pack of cigarettes a day, and three packs of pot. Heh, heh, heh, heh.

    AH: And he's, and he's, and he knew even though he's in Vancouver and you are near Peterborough.

    RH: Well that's what I said, that this is gettin' weird. I can't slip around smoke, if he catches me smokin'.

    AH: And how are you feeling now?

    RH: I'm feeling ready for anything. I'm just, you know, I'm not in good shape yet, you know. I don't, I can't handle but two-three girls a day now. But, I'm gonna get in better shape here in a little while.

    AH: When you think about Adam, and when you think of the role that he played in you getting better. How much do you sort of attribute it to Adam? You tried some other stuff as well, right?

    RH: I've tried everything, but Adam's got somethin' special. You can tell when somemone's got somethin' special. You can just kinda tell. What, the way they look. For instance, Johnny Cash, he had something special. And I could tell when he was sellin' cars on Trump Boulevard, before he had ever become a singer. But, he was one of those catches, he was somethin' special. Adam is somethin' special. You're somethin' special.

    AH: Well gee. We'll talk about that more about that later after the show. But the fact that when your daughter-in-law told you that a 17 year old kid....

    RH: He was 15 then.

    AH: He was 15 at the time.

    RH: And you can imagine what I thought? So, uho, it's another one of them deals.

    AH: But, you were willing to try it.

    RH: I hadn't tried anything. I only had three or four months to live. I was thinkin' 'bout over to Australia and licking that frog they've got over there.

    AH: We're glad you didn't do that because that's poisonous. I'll explain that to you after the show, too.

    RH: I found out it was poisonous.

    AH: We're going to take a break, and coming up next meet the boy that for now will only go by the name of Adam.


    [Adam and his mother are to the right of the camera most of the time. There is a distorted video screen that looks like glass shower partition that masks their identity, but their voices are not disguised. You will see during the rest of the show that two of the guests blurt out the first names of Adam's mother and father.]

    AH: Well, Adam and his family don't want me to tell you his last name or show you his face because he is protecting his privacy until he finishes high school, because his friends don't know about his secret life as a healer.

    [Turning to Adam who is hidden behind a translucent filter that looks like a shower stall]

    Adam I want to thank you so much for being here. Can you talk a little bit, I mean you spent all this time "healing" Ronnie through long-distance. And now you had a chance to meet him for the first time. What's that like?

    ADH: It was great to finally meet him. I, uh, he was the first person that I "successfully healed with cancer" and it was a great feeling.

    AH: Did you feel like you knew who he was, or what he was about from the healing work that you had done beforehand?

    ADH: Well, it's totally different than when you're in there than when you're actually seeing the person, from the inside than meeting them. It's uh it doesn't look the same. You get some ideas, some intuition about what the person's like. Right away I picked up that Ronnie was a very honest man. I said that in one of my first e-mails. And uyh, it's just things like that - you pick up.

    AH: What's it like to meet this guy who you say saved your life? [Directing her gaze to RH]

    RH: I gonna follow him around for the rest of mine. Heh heh heh heh. I'm gonna go everywhere he goes.

    AH: You're just trying to think of what other things that you might get Adam to fix.

    RH: Oh baby am I ever.

    AH: Talk to me a little bit Adam though about what it is that you did with Ronnie. Because people when they hear "distant healing" you know that there are alot of people who are going to be skeptical, particularly at your young age. What is it that you did? How did you treat him?[Note that she doesn't say what is it that you claim to have done]

    ADH: Well, what I do, I look at someone's picture, and from here I'm not exactly sure about what I do. I believe it is something I was just born with. But I find that everything in the room goes dark and I see these images in front of me.....3-D images. In Ronnie's case there was an image of him and then there was.... I could see that there was this weird glow around the pancreas, and this weird glow usually signifies a cancer. It usually means cancer. From here I just use certain visualization techniques that many of which Effie Chow, Qigong grand master, showed me to remove it. And the images in front of me showing me and I could see how it was progressing. And I kept doing these treatments until I couldn't see the tumour anymore.

    AH: But, you say that you can actually through a distance go into a person's body and you can see in 3-D their body, you see their organs they way that you would seem them if a camera was in there?

    ADH: Yes, there's different layers I can go to. Uhm it's just like a computer screen, I can see the actual physical organs moving - live time. I can see this whole hologram, it's just the light's where the problem is. There's many layers, I'm learning new ways of, new techniques all the time, new layers all the time.

    AH: And how did you know that Ronnie's, Ronnie's mass had gone?

    ADH: Well I can see it. Uh, so I kept doing them until I couldn't see it anymore....the tumour.

    AH: How long did it take for that to happen?

    ADH: Well we did a two-weeks, two weeks or so every day, a treatment every day, and we'd slowly spread them out more and more. And probably about fifty treatments of so.

    AH: And during this, what did Adam tell you to do, in order to help sorta facilitate this?

    RH: Nothing. All I had to do...well he didn't like to mess with anyone smokin' cigarettes 'cause it's cloudy. You can't get through there, all your body's messed up, everything is stopped up. So, I cut down to about half a pack a day then.

    AH: Did you honestly, you knew that Ronnie was smoking because you can sort of sense the smoke?

    ADH: Yah, you can tell that, it's pretty easy to tell. If you're...I can tell that there's a source of the problem was from that. Yah, that was one of the things.

    AH: Now you've been working with group healings. How does that work, how does that differ from what you've done with Ronnie?

    ADH: Group healings is something that I've just recently discovered. I realize that I could join everyone's auras as one. And uh from there whenever everyone's auras joined as one, I do a treat one person and everyone benefits the same. So, I get 30 people in the room, and I get them to all have the same problem. So, I, like there's when you have 30 people everyone has different problems, there's just too many problems to deal with. But, if I know that they all have one common problem, such as fibromyalgia, I know I just work on that, and everyone will benefit. So I've been doing alot of workshops. The last fibromyalgia workshop I did several of the people that were there don't think they have it anymore. And all of them feel better.

    AH: Well, we're meeting your mom a little later, because for so many people, this is, I mean you do lead sort of a double life, right? I mean you're a 17 year-old, honour student at school, you're active in sports, you've got a girl-friend, and you know you listen to music, and yet you've got this secret life as a "healer", none of your friends know about.

    ADH: It is hard to juggle it all around. It's hard to not talk about it at times. So, uhm it is somethin' I gotta do until high school's out. Then after that I'm not gonna worry about the anonymity as much.

    AH: And why does it worry you so much?

    ADH: Well it is high school, and it's uh something I'd like to keep as much as possible. I've already had a couple of people come to my door asking me to "heal" them. It's just sorta nothing that I would like to happen every day.

    AH: I wanna just go back a little bit into your childhood and just to get a sense of when you first realized that you had what you thought would be "extraordinary powers".

    ADH: Well, first of all there were strange telekinetic events happening around me. Like I would touch an object and it just go flying across the room. At one time in school there was a pen on my desk, I touched it and it went flying up and hit the blackboard and almost hit the teacher. Uhm, uh, and then I realized that other people couldn't see auras. That was something that you just never talk about.

    AH: Because you see the ener..., you see colours and energy around people.

    ADH: Well, yeah. I've been seeing that since as long as I can remember. Once I realized people couldn't see them I realized that I was different. Then I began to look into things, like Qigong, energy healing, and it all developed from that.

    AH: Well as a kid you didn't even you didn't sort of get the "hide" in the game of hide-and-seek.

    ADH: Yeah, it seemed kind of pointless, because where we were playing there were these, there used to be these uh, these trees, skinny trees that were in and the kids would be hiding behind the, and it was very obvious where they were.

    AH: Cause you could see there aura.

    ADH: I was always the first person to spot every animal in the forest, too. Their physical body might be behind the object, but their aura would be clearly visible. They really stand out.

    AH: Well there are all kinds of things that I want to talk to you about, just in terms of as well. I mean which everyone who's met you wants to know about is, you know, can you tell if there's something wrong with the individual people 'cause you're walking by.

    Let's take a break....Later in the show we will get an explanation of just how energy healing works from Deepak Chopra, as well as a Grand Master of Qigong. But coming up next how Adam first realized her had a special gift and how he used it to help his mom.


    AH: Welcome back, we're talking about "energy healing", a power 17 year-old Adam claims he has, a power he says he used to cure Ronnie Hawkins of pancreatic cancer. With us now is Adam's mother Liz. I want to thank you so much for coming in. [Yes, she said it, his mother's name is Liz]

    Liz: Thanks, pleasure to be here.

    AH: Liz, I know that there were all kinds odd little things that were happening sort of during Adam's life as he was growing up that you couldn't explainm like pens flying, there was an instant with the bicycle right?

    Liz: Yes, that was quite interesting.

    AH: What happened?

    Liz: Well, I was riding my bike behind Adam and we were actually going quite slowly at the time. He did a 360 degree flip.

    AH: The bike went up in the air and right around?

    Liz: yup, yeah, and it kept riding. The flip was under and around. So the bicycle is still in motion when he finished. We were both pretty shocked.

    AH: This is just energy that you could...this is before you learned to control the energy. [Adam can be heard mumbling something incoherently while the two ladies were talking nonsense].

    ADH: I had no idea about anything about energy at that point. The way it was explained to me we thought it was static energy building up, and that's just its way of releasing itself. That was the most uh...that was actually kinda scary at the time that it was happening, all these strange things happening at the time. I have no idea why.

    AH: And then there was one particular thing that happened with you that made you realize that this wasn't just sort of these freaky things that happened to be occuring in Adam's life. [Directing her question to Liz]. You have multiple sclerosis.

    Liz: Yes

    AH: What happened?

    Liz: Well, I was upstairs screaming in pain. I get a symptom that I get called Trigeminal Neuralgia that is quite common in MS, a terrible head pain. And so I was trying to decide whether I should go into emergency or not, which these days is a six-hour wait decision. And then Adam, there's like a stabbing pain every two minutes, so it was quite a timeable, no when it disappears type pain. And Adam came upstairs and he put his hand over my forehead, and he said, "Mom, just relax." So I did, I closed my eyes and that was the last pain I had. The only thing was that he took on the pain. He said, "Oh Mom, that was a terrible headache that you had". So, I wasn't really too thrilled about that, that he had taken on the pain.

    AH: What made you go to your Mom and put your and over her head to begin with? I mean you didn't...

    ADH: I really don't know. Like at that point I realized that I was seeing auras and that many people weren't. And I had also looked into a couple of things, like Qigong - energy healing. But, but uh, I just, I don't know I just sorta knew I could. So I had to try it.

    AH: And you absorbed your Mom's pain?

    ADH: Yup, and then she went sleep pain-free and I went to sleep with her pain. That's how it all started.

    AH: And then a healing sense then and the woman who helped you, you;ve had help learning how to sort of...

    ADH: Yeah, I had to have help. So obviously I don't on the person's pain all the time. That's you know, it drains you real fast.

    AH: You know there are lots of people who are listening and are incredibly skeptical right now. What do you say to people like that?

    ADH: Well it is uh. When you first realize that you have this uh, this uh it's very hard to have a lot of people around you. You know it's true because you're experiencing it every day, it's happening to you. Then you've got people around you that are uh, there's uh, they just dismiss it as nothing. And it is hard at first. You want to run around convincing everyone. You just lose steam on that. There's enough people out there that believe it, and I think it's just a matter of time before we can explain it scientifically.

    AH: Doesn't it scare you though, isn't there an element of fear that goes along with this if you do have that power?

    Liz: Well uh, I can add to that. He has always been the most kind compassionate person that we have ever known. So if anybody was going to get a gift like this, it should be him.

    AH: Well, your husband was more skeptical than probably anybody. He comes from a scientific background. He didn't buy this.

    ADH: He was pretty skeptical. He didn't believe it until he saw one of the objects fly out of my hands himself. He heard about them, he heard about the bike flipping, things like that. But, one day there was a nasal spray can up on my desk, and I watched and reached out and touched it, and just before I touched it, it came flying up and hit the ceiling. And when he saw that he started to think that there was actually something happening.

    AH: And at the gym?

    ADH: And at the weight room, too. Yeah I was walking by, I walked by them and the bench press bar came up off the holder fell down and almost hit him.

    AH: Are you concerned about this ability that you have will go away?

    ADH: Oh it's a, I don't think it will. It's something that as long as I keep using it I think I'll keep it.

    Liz: He seems to be getting more and more efficient, not less at what he does.

    AH: But, does it, I mean, I mean when you're, I'm just trying to, when you are just looking at me right now, you are seeing what that I'm not seeing?

    ADH: There's colours around you. There's a, you can see where the problems are. Uh, like your lower back for example. Uh, there's a, yeah that's basically the difference I see. And occassionaly I get images from people.

    AH: When you're walking along a street for example, are you noticing everyone, you're noticing everyone's aura and if there are difficulties because there's sort of a break in the aura?

    ADH: Yeah, when it's crowded though you tend to ignore it, because there's sort of too much there.

    AH: You can tune it in and out?

    ADH: Well, yeah, I can tune it out to a degree, but then a lot of the times I just have to try to just ignore it. You know, stare at the ground sort of walk.

    AH: And in terms of going inside, sort of visually going inside someone's body. Is that of the kind of thing you can do on the spur of the moment thing that you can just do it, or is it something that you have to focus and concentrate on?

    ADH: Well, I have to see person's picture, I connect to them.

    AH: Or in person?

    ADH: I can do it in person, too. Yeah. And uh from there, yeah I just, I can do it whenever I want.

    AH: Are you worried about the "freak show" element in this, or the circus element in this for your 17 year-old son?

    Liz: Well, that's certainly why we are faceless today, and nameless. I don't think we are planning a coming out party at any time soon. We live a strictly normal suburban family life. We love it.

    ADH: We want to try to keep it that way as much as possible.

    AH: Because even as it is now, there's so many people who know about you in the community of energy healing that you are sort of inundated.

    ADH: There's a lot of people that want to get in contact with me, it's really hard to turn them down, especially when they're coming to your door. So, that's why I want to keep my anonymity for as long as possible.

    AH: We'll talk a little bit later about the different kinds of things that you can do in terms of cancers and stuff that you can heal and the things that you can't heal yet. And so we will have to take a break. But, coming up next, what all the skeptics out there have been waiting for. We will give you a scientific explanation of how quantum physics relates to energy healing. Please stay with us.


    AH: Welcome back. A little while ago I did an interview with Deepak Chopra, one of the best known figures in the world of mind-body healing. And I asked him to explain how distant energy healing c could possibly work. To understand it he says you first have to understand quantum physics.

    DC: So, distant healing is when it happens is the result is a spiritual phenomenon which we would say in physics is an example of quantum quantum non-locality. Where an intention in one location has an effect in another location. [Yeah right, how much gobbledigook can he fit in one sentence? Try the next one, too, if you are not completely convinced that someone has no idea of what they are saying.].

    Or, with a simultaneous actualization of information in multiple locations at the same time. It's an example of how when you go into discontinuity, that field that connects everything with everything else, then an intention produced in that field, intention being a force in nature, just like gravity is a force in nature -- effect -- phenomenon -- distant places. So, there's a lot of literature, most of it is anecdotal. Only now, recent studies are focusing on documenting whether this really happens or not. [Note how he circles the wagons on this one having avoided the facts before. I wonder where Chopra went to grade school, because I don't think he knows how to structure his sentences. Everything seems to be one long train of thought, with little meaningful coming out of his mouth.

    So I think that there's a lot to this distant healing that we'll learn a lot more about. Even in traditional healing, when a person interacts with another person, either their doctor or a healer with a "healee", there's something called "limbic resonance", "limbic regulation" and "limbic revision" that it does, in that the internal state of the person being healed responds to the internal state of the person who is doing the healing. So, it's also important that the person doing the healing to have been in internal state.

    AH: I think the thing that most people have a difficult time with is the thought of somebody holding a picture, and someone else a million miles away...How the intent actually makes it from my body here...

    DC: It doesn't really make it from here to there. You see what happens is there's no information going from here to there. What is happening is a discontinuity, a domain of existance, where there is no here or there. It's all one. [Well that makes it all so simple, doesn't it?]


    AH: Joining us now, another leader in the field of energy healing, Effie Foy Yu Chow. She's a Grand Master of Qigong, one of the many forms of energy healing. And she's written this book, "Qigong - Miracle Healing from China". I want to thank you so much for being here.

    EC: I'm delighted to be here.

    AH: Can you explain a little bit how you got connected with Adam? What's your connection to him is?

    EC: Well it's a fortunate connection, and Liz called me because uhm Adam was having some of the side-effects of extremely strong energy, like pencils flying and the articles popping up before he can reach it, and his bicycle was turning, you know over as he was riding it. And so I went up to Vancouver and I worked with Adam for about a few days. And I am fortunate to be one of his teachers and mentors. And so we dealt with that problem and also the method in which he was using for "healing". We kind of expedited that, and streamlined that so that it was faster. And so there are ways, methods and means to make it more quicker and more powerful even. But, but I'm just delighted because he's one of the great young "healers" in the West here.

    AH: Well in that the whole saying "in the West" brings up an interesting point and it's something that you mentioned as well about sort of a sense of humour that God has for putting you in a family, you know in a WASP family in Vancouver. Right? [Haines looked right at Adam to answer this directly]

    ADH: Yeah, uhm. Had I been put anywhere else it would have been excepted. Uh, our culture is very materialistic, if you can't, if there's not measurable then it doesn't exist. Uh, so uh..

    AH: If you'd have been born in India, you'd have been he'd have been sent off to an ashram, and he would've been, it would've been under guidance of a teacher, or China. I mean this, for for Western culture this is so unusual and so hard to grasp. And yet in China this is sort of almost run of the mill.

    EC: Very common, yes. Well in the West I think they haven't understood this phenomenon so much because it we are very technologically oriented and quote "scientifically" oriented. So this phenomenon of Adam being able to see energy is more or less submerged rather than fostered. But, in China that youngsters are being fostered to use these skills, and are taught, you knowl, how to use it and for healing. So uhm so that if he were born into a Chinese family he'd be really quite well, you know well uhm...

    AH: He'd be set up, well set up. I mean it is not unusual for people to see auras. I mean quite often people have seen auras, and yet to be able to go into someone, inside someone's body and actually see the organs going around. Is that unusual?

    EC: Some have the natural skill and some develop it. And everybody can develop that skill. Some would take a longer time. I've taught for many years, 30-35 years or so and many have developed that skill. But, Adam's is like naturally - he had it, and therefore honing in was easier. And also I have to say that whole family ambiance is something that was conducive for Adam to do this. He was very fortunate to have a supportive family. And so therefore we have developed many, many people who had not the skill to be able to do this.

    AH: But I mean Deepak Chopra tried to give us an explanation of quantum healing through physics and yet it's very difficult for people, I don't think a lot of people could sort of grasp what he was saying.

    ADH: It's is a difficult concept.

    AH: But, when you talk about quantum you are talking about stuff at the very, very, very minute stage. How do you describe what you do?

    ADH: Well I describe it as information being sent. What I'm seeing is information of that person's body, and when I'm healing I'm sending information at that person. Uh, Dr. Edgar Mitchell's "quantum hologram theory" comes closest to explaining what I do. It's a theory that everything is information and the information can be exchanged regardless of the distance - instantaneously. Uh, that's uh yeah that's what I do when I heal. I send information to the person, which cancels out the information and the problem. As a result they get better.

    AH: But the idea of your being in Vancouver and helping Ronnie all the way in Peterborough, I mean how ... and I tried to get that from from Deepak as well. I mean how does that, how do you send that information so that it hooks up with Ronnie?

    ADH: Yeah it's uhm I believe it's something I was born with - connecting directly to that person. If you think an intention or thought it'll reach the edge of the universe. Uhm, but if you want to do a healing directed toward one person you gotta sorta direct it toward that person, and not have it dispersed through everywhere. Uhm, so yeah when I'm doing the healing it's directed towards him.

    AH: Okay we do have to take a break. Coming up next, putting Adam to the test. Please stay with us.


    AH: Welcome back. Well we wanted to set Adam up with two random people who we chose who he didn't know to see if he could have an effect on their health. Andy Leyland is one of them. He's a commercial pilot who lives north of Toronto and we spent some time with him a month ago to document impact that osteoarthritis was having on his life. [Videos of Andy limping around doing the daily routine in his home were aired while Haines was speaking.] He has a difficult time doing some basic things. He described his pain to us as being a 14 out of 10. Andy has since had a number of long distance treatments with Adam. I want to thank you so much for coming in.

    AL: Oh, you are more than welcome.

    AH: Now we could see that you were having difficult difficult time doing just about really very basic things, and that your pain level was very high with this osteoarthritis. How have you felt since you've had the treatments with Adam?

    AL: Since the treatments started with Adam about eight weeks ago or so, my pain level has succumbed to maybe a 2 or 3. There are bouts though where I'd put it at 4 to 6, but is sure is a lot better than it was.

    AH: And what was it like during the treatments, did you notice the stuff that Ronnie Hawkins was talking about, the sort of popping(?) in the area that Adam was working on?

    AL: Well during the actual treatment, and very much like Frank, Adam's father, I experienced nothing at all. In fact it was quite benign, I felt nothing at all. About two weeks ago there was a morning, Wednesday morning, I woke up at 6:52, I remember it specifically because it was such an event, where I felt kind of a boiling, a boiling inside of my right foot. In fact it was so dramatic that I had to actually get up and look to see that no one was actually touching my foot.

    AH: And what was that Adam that Adam was seeing?

    ADH: What many people feel are the effects of the treatment long after the treatment. I've had people that I do the treatment on, they feel nothing but then a couple of weeks later they feel all better. It's very common.

    AH: Now Andy you felt, you come to this not as someone who's into New Age philosophy and the rest of it. I mean, this to you was pretty much bunk when we sort of brought the idea to you, that this 17 year-old kid is gonna work on you from Vancouver.

    AL: I still have trouble believing it. I'm still very much of a skeptic, but you are absolutely right, it's not technologically, there was a conclusion, I have a very hard time believing it. Umh, I still, I'm still in that zone, in that zone if I may. And subsequently I'm starting to be swayed because I can't deny the fact that my pain is reduced.

    AH: And you are due for a hip replacement surgery. You are going to see a doctor in December.

    AL: That is correct.

    AH: And you'll have X-rays, so you must be looking foward to those just to see.

    AL: Very much to see if there is evidence to support that. But, I'm gonna tell you something that if the hip replacement surgery was going to happen today, I would not do it. That's how much it's changed.

    AH: Wow. And do you, when you look at Andy, have you done all that you can do. That's finished for you?

    ADH: Well his is the kind of condition that would take a many treatments. It's something you have to constantly stay on top of. Uh, his uh, I'll have to do a couple more to make it all better.

    AH: Do you think that you could avert the need for him to have a hip replacement?

    ADH: Yeah, with more treatments, yeah I could.

    AH: Our next guest who came along as well is Tina Norton. She has pancreatic cancer, and after surgery doctors were surprised on how quickly the cancer was spreading. And she was told that right now she would be very ill. She's had about a dozen treatments from Adam. Thank you so much from coming in.

    TN: It's my pleasure. [Tina appeared to be about in her late 30s or early 40s and she looked very well. I have no idea of her status today.]

    AH: And can you tell me what a, first of all tell me what happened during the treatment. What did you do and what did Adam do from Vancouver?

    TN: During the treatments with Adam, what I do physically is that I find a comfortable place where I can relax, I ground myself. And, uhm I visualize as well uhm my body and healing itself. Uhm, I really don't feel anything during the treatment with Adam, but I as well have felt things after I felt sometimes full of energy, maybe the next day or even directly after the treatment. And I've also had days and treatments where uhm I'll be completely rundown where I just want to spend the day in bed. So, it's effecting me different ways after as well. But, during the treatment you don't usually feel very much.

    AH: And since you've had the treatments from Andy, ur from Adam, what has happened? No no no, Adam Andy's we haven't taught Andy how to do it yet. But, since you've had the treatment from Adam what's happened with the pancreatic cancer?

    TN: Well, I've had a CAT scan, I'd say 2.5 weeks after my first treatment with Adam. And at that time my cancer tumour had decreased in size by 25%. One of the tumours that I had and they showed there's no evidence of additional spread or growth, which is phenomenal because at that time the doctors expected things to have grown at such a rate that I would have needed possibly chemotherapy to reduce the tumours for pain reduction. Chemotherapy would never or radiation was never a treatment for me to stop the cancer. But, they were looking at palliative care at this point.

    AH: Because they had pretty much didn't feel as though you'd be able to.

    TN: They felt that it was growing at a very fast rate. Yes.

    AH: Now you've, we've seen the medical reports that showed that your, that the tumour has actually shrunk, to show that it has had, that this that you think that it has had some effect with Adam. What, what did the doctor say and when you were supposed to sort of be needing someone to help get you through the final days, and you walk in looking beautiful and radiant and healthy? [Since the show was broadcast again in Dec 2004 and Jan 2005 why don't we have a followup from Tina?. What has happened to her since the original tape was made?]

    TN: They really didn't have a lot to say. Uhm they can't really explain it. It's not something they normally see. Put it that way. And basically my doctor told me, you know, whatever it is you're doing, keep up the good work, and we'll see you again in a couple of months. I'll be having another CAT scan soon and I'm very curious to see what that shows, 'cause I feel even better now than I did in September.

    AH: Do you think that you can cure her cancer?

    ADH: It, it yeah, it looks like it's on the right path. Uh, her body is responding very well to the treatments. Right away when I do the treatments I can see that her body is just eating away, very fast, at the tumour.

    AH: That the body that the energy that you're using and that she's using together is just sort of blasting the tumour away?

    ADH: Yes, yes it's like uh I don't do the actual healing, the body does the actual healing. I just point them in the right direction, direct to the immune system. And uh her body's really getting on top of it.

    AH: Okay we do have to take a break. Stay with us, we're back with more in just a moment.


    AH: Welcome back, we're talking about energy healing, and Adam has written a book called Dreamhealer, and in it he explains how you can, how he does and as well how can help yourself use energy to help keep yourself healthy as well. Why did you call it Dreamhealer?

    ADH: Well, the dream is the vision of the person's perfect health. It's the goal that they're trying to get to. It's one of the many reasons why I called it the Dreamhealer. But, the main reason for me writing this book to teach people how to heal themselves. To show people that they the power to make the difference in their own health. To empower people. A lot of people tend to expect a magic wand, just to come out and tap them on the shoulder and then they are all better. But, healing with intention is a two-way process, it requires participation both from the healer and the person. So, I wrote the book to show people to heal themselves.

    AH: And one of the things that are difficult for people to understand, and for everyone to understand, is this idea of what Adam can do. And the concern is that when you hear about someone like Adam. That somehow there are all kinds of people who have this ability, or that that's all you need is for someone to come up and that you can actually be cured of diseases that, you know, medical science can't cure. I mean it's kind of dangerous to even bring it up.

    EC: Well there's a big misunderstanding in that is that the ability the individual to heal themself is a great potential. And so when you get a catalyst who is quote "a healer" then they help to facilitate the energy for the person to heal themself. And this the big movement right now of people taking responsiblity for their own health, and learning skills and attitudes, positive attitudes and taking time for themself. All of it. And when someone as powerful as Adam, or other "healers", that it facilitates the energetics to rebalance itself. And this is very much in Chinese medicine. That's why we call it Qi. It's the breath or the vital life force. And Gong is maneuver, and how it works to maintain better health. So, that in essence we say "we don't cure" the individual, and that we facilitate curing of the individual by that person.

    AH: But do you think you can help people cure themselves of everything that they have, every illness?

    ADH: Well there's always hope. There's uh no such thing as false hope. So uh I believe that everyone should at least try their best.

    AH: In terms of, I mean you woudn't work on someone who has chemotherapy is very difficult for you to work with?

    ADH: Yeah, I can't see through it, it's it fogs on seeing it. A lot of drugs do that. Sometimes just something like, you know, an Advil or something like that is enough to fog it up in a certain area.

    AH: Geesh working with Ronnie must have been a big foggy experience. I can't even imagine.....When you decided to start with someone, you decided to start with someone who is, your body was fogged. [Directing her gaze to Ronnie Hawkins]

    RH: He had to use his goggles on me.

    AH: Well when you hear all of this Ronnie, I just have to, I'm just thinking of you sitting here listening to all of this talk about quantum healing and Deepak Chopra and, I mean do you find it hard to believe as the many people even though you think that it helped, you know get rid of the cancer?

    RH: I don't even worry about it now, I'm already healed. Heh heh heh heh.

    AH: You are thinking about what, you're planning to see if these guys can move in with you now.

    RH: Yes, I want 'em close at all times from now on.

    AH: I want to thank you all so much for coming in and for sharing your, your, your expertise obviously and for sharing your incredible story. And best of luck to you as well. And I know you have a daughter that's younger. How has she been handling all of this?

    Liz: Very well. She's out shopping presently and....

    AH: Doesn't, doesn't feel any kind of, any kind of, you know, obvious difficulty in having a brother, having a brother like Adam?

    Liz: I think she handles it very well.

    AH: Thank you so much for coming and for sharing your story. Thank you for watching, I'm Avery Haines. We'll see you next time. Goodbye.

    To complain about Canadian broadcasting here are some links:

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    Common definitions and links to subjects on the show

    Energy healing

    Gurus and mentors and failed science

    Alternative guru a matter of choice
    • Gurus and gibberish - Francis Wheen on the snake–oils and quacks of our age
    • Science Fiction After spending half a billion taxpayer dollars, alternative medicine gurus still can't prove their methods work--how convenient.
    • Legal Boundaries and Ethics in Energy Work - Some of the legal and ethical questions that arise when clinicians and institutions are called to counsel patients regarding CAM therapies and/or refer patients to CAM providers.

    Pancreatic cancer - facts - fallacies - and fraud

    • - Confronting Pancreatic Cancer
      Helping Patients and Physicians Create Optimal Treatment Strategies
    • Nationsl Cancer Institute (NCI) - Pancreatic cancer - U.S.
    • NCI - Progressive Review Groups - U.S.
    • Pancreatic cancer - Google News
    • Medline Plus - Pancreatic cancer
    • Medline Plus - Cancer Quackery
    • "The Doctor Can't Help Himself" - When the notorious cancer doctor, and radio talk-show host Gil Lederman cadged an autograph from a dying George Harrison, the world was appalled. But as Lederman scrambles to salvage his reputation, the very nature of his experimental practice has come under attack.
    • British cancer quack convicted of fraud - NCAHF Digest - Reginald Gill, 68, a self-described "wellness practitioner" from Bournemouth, England, has been found guilty of deceiving a dying man by selling him a briefcase-size IFAS high-frequency device with claims that it would "kill" his pancreatic cancer. Testimony in the case indicates that Gill treated the patient several times and then sold him the device for £2500 after having bought it from an Australian company for less than £200. The patient died ten weeks later. The device is said to work on the same principle as a car ignition coil. Gill testified that he had not promised a cure but merely said the device would "help the body heal itself" and would enable the body to use nutrients in a drink he provided to heal itself of the cancer. The jury took just over an hour to convict him of making a false statement about services provided on May 10, 2002, and supplying goods with a false description on May 17, 2002.
    • Nicholas Gonzalez - Research in coffee enemas
    • Zoetron scam - Quackwatch
    • Zoetron scam - Healthwatcher
    • David Walker's internet scam - David Walker sold over the Internet what he claimed to be a cure for cancer. One of the victims, Peter Fulton, a high school math teacher in Olympia, Wash., tearfully recounted how he and his wife grasped at the possibility of a cure for her inoperable pancreatic cancer.
    • Bogus Cancer Cure Guru Settles FTC Charges - David Walker


    If you have information about the identity of Adam, the teenager from the Vancouver area who claims to be a remote healer, or if you have been taken for a ride by any remote healer, please send us complete details. We are looking forward to your participation and thank you in advance.

    Terry Polevoy, M.D.
    938 King Street West
    Kitchener, Ontario N2G 1G4
    519-725-4953 fax. E-mail:

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